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Though I am usually one for facts over fiction, I found it hard to ignore the "coincidences" around the assassination of these two great men. It is beyond difficult (sometimes) for us to think of humanity in a light so terrible as to think that an agency would plan the demise of such forward thinking individuals, but I find it hard to ignore the alignment of certain facts.

Listed above are a few of the coincidences that I felt warranted a second look, but they only skim the surface of the harsh reality behind the deaths of these two men. Both Lincoln and Kennedy were idealists that stood against the bigotry of their age. They put forth philosophies that restructured the way we thought about equality and what it meant to be a human living in these United States of America. Living in the internet world that we do, it is certainly easy for us to forget their sacrifice at the alter of change, but we must not, for it was men like these that earned the moniker "hero" in a time when the world so desperately needed them.

Agree? Disagree? Sound off in the comments below.

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  • Mere coincidence or massive conspiracy, these are some interesting parallels.

  • The circumstances surrounding both deaths are hard to ignore. Taking into consideration some of the statistics certainly adds to the mystique.

  • I would say that if this was the entirety of the coincidences, coincidences they are. But since I know that these only scratch the surface, it is very strange indeed.

  • Where is the List? I don't see it? I want to, but I don't.

    My disagreement is with calling them "Heroes".

    Lincoln freeing the Slaves was something that needed to occur at the founding of our nation. I think that was a great achievement, but his methods were dirty. This "great Illinois attorney" ruthlessly expanded the role of the executive branch in our republic. Lincoln issued many executive orders that shouldn't of had the ability to reach to the degrees of depth that they did. He allowed Sherman to order the slaughter titled "March to the Sea". His administration saw the birth of income taxation. John Wilkes Booth called it correctly whether history wants to believe it or not. The 1860's god Lincoln was a tyrant. A benevolent tyrant some may argue, but a tyrant all the same.

    Now Kennedy was different. He was a drug fueled sex fanatic; already his heroism is diminishing. Arguable this man was the root cause of Marylin Monroe's assassin... er suicide. The man was consistently on Dr. Feelgood's drugs ON THE JOB! I have no problem with drug use, but I have a major problem with drug use when you're making decision that effect the Nation. Also the blatant disregard for commitment to his gorgeous (at the time) wife. What about the Bay of Pigs? Did we forget who issued that slaughter? Oh what heroism. Where I respect JFK is his military service, something Lincoln never had. Also the desire to not send American men to their deaths Also unlike Lincoln. Kennedy only supported special forces assistance for Vietnam via his newly created SEAL teams formerly know us UDTs. That of course, from what I've gathered, was the cause of his famous demise. Of course after a Democrat was assassinated by a "communist" (Yea that makes way too much sense) we had the fuel to persuade congress to attack a communist regime. That man was murdered by the US government prompted by the military industrial complex so we could escalate the war in Vietnam and boost government contracts to big business. I consider that more heroic than Lincoln who was killed by a rebel. Still his other action are quite deplorable.

    Of course humans love fairy tales and Camelot so we paint these men as great heroes for their two greatest accomplishments: assisting an oppressed race, and getting assassinated. Great men? Sure why not the blind need their idols to follow. Still why do we think it was only the blacks that were being repressed in the 60s? This country was anti-Irish, anti-Jewish, anti-Greek, anti-Asian, anti-Italian, etc. This country was full of bigotry on all sides and still is so what did these "heroes" really accomplish? Not much.

  • I see the list now! I didn't know we had that feature. Pretty sweet!

  • Also, John Wilkes Booth was born in May 1838. Lee Harvey Oswald was born in October 1939

  • Apologies on the dates Kage, I found a few different sources for both that showed different years.

    As for your rant, both Lincoln and Kennedy are about as close to American heroes as this country gets. Not only did Kennedy support the civil rights movement, but he encouraged space exploration. Lincoln ended slavery. The means in which both went about causing these effects seems a bit hypocritical coming from a Libertarian.

    Your full support of a Constitution, in the light upon which you viewed both of these men, would support an attempted genocide put forth by the founding members of our country.

    When it all boils down to it, we have to remember men like Kennedy and Lincoln as believers in equal rights and explorers. If we chose to analyze every piece of every life, there would be no heroes.

    Also, them being killed for the same reason tends to point to their influence.

  • Something I've always wondered about Kage... If no one paid taxes, what do you think this country (and, as a consequence, the world) would look five years from now?

  • "If we chose to analyze every piece of every life, there would be no heroes."

    True, but consistent habits show a person's true nature. One great achievement doesn't correct many crimes.

    "The means in which both went about causing these effects seems a bit hypocritical coming from a Libertarian."

    Nowhere in my point did I say slavery/discrimination/bigotry was a good thing. I'm failing to see the hypocritical idea here. Maybe you should explain it a little more cause I'm clearly not getting it.

    I just feel these men were given way more credit than they deserve. Do we give the congressmen who actually voted for the amendment as much credit as Lincoln? Nope. My libertarianism keeps me from idolizing a person who in every other regard I disagree with. Lincoln is not a hero to me and my beliefs on the whole. He had one great success that we match up on. The rest I view as slightly above criminal.

    "Your full support of a Constitution, in the light upon which you viewed both of these men, would support an attempted genocide put forth by the founding members of our country."

    If you didn't know me would you say this? Honestly I don't even comprehend this. Nowhere have I ever said or supported any type of genocide. That goes completely against my platform.

    Of course maybe I'm not reading far enough between the lines of your comment. You're trying to idolize these men for their civil rights actions. They aren't the only ones. England abolished Slavery far prior to the USA do we idolize whoever made that call? Do you even know that persons name? I sure don't.

    Kennedy and Space exploration? Last time I checked that was a cold war space race to show supremacy, but hey you can believe the BS the government feed you when they say it was for the betterment of humanity solely.

  • The lines that the public are fed have little to do with this Kage. The results of the actions of both men progressed the country in a positive way. No more, no less. Lincoln freed the slaves. Kennedy progressed the civil rights movement and got us into space. These actions are heroic to me, and plenty of other American citizens. It is easy to sit and pick apart the actions they took as ordinary men in order that you may pull down their accomplishments, but in doesn't change the fact that they had a positive impact on the country, and the world.

    These men will always be remembered as heroes because their action helped people. They progressed a struggling civilization. A civilization that would do well to remember people like them.

    As for England abolishing slavery, I would certainly hope so as their civilization is thousands of years older than ours.

  • Some say that "History repeats itself!" . Even though the people are different the mentality and/or ideas carry on for generations.

  • Certainly true.

  • If that is your criteria for heroism than the list must be lackluster.

    People will talk about Obama as a great POTUS with a noble peace prize even though his drone strikes have "accidentally" killed more civilians than terrorists as "Collateral damage". Such a peaceful action there. What about the lie of shutting down Guantanamo then gloating in its success of finding Osama. Great guy there.

    What's fed to the public is EVERYTHING to do with what make heros! Like my point earlier the blind need an idol to follow.

  • I put noble instead of Nobel. hahaha That alone mutes all my points.

  • The list is certainly lackluster Kage. The recognition of heroes certainly comes from the public, but heroes themselves own who they are. Their actions stand the test of time.

  • Their actions stand as long as they're remembered by a public that agrees. The real heroes are the people that keep their belief alive. Flip flop with Hitler. If the majority of humans thought what he was doing was right would you consider him a hero?

    Heroism is media tool that conditions the blind on how to live. It's merely a form of social control.

  • Hitler was a hero to many people during that time Kage. He took a country that was dying and gave them hope. He may not be considered a hero now, but he is certainly a villain. A man remembered for the horror that he perpetrated across eurasia.

    There were millions of people that stood firm against Lincoln and Kennedy, and they persevered. That is what makes them heroic. For their bravery in the face of adversity, they were killed. They were assassinated because they represented change, hope, and progress.

  • hahaha Change, hope, and progress? Nice hot words.

    Heroism is a social control. I'm not down with social control.

  • Great heroes gave you the life you are allowed to live now. Denying them that moniker is beyond ignorant.

    “The probability that we may fail in the struggle ought not to deter us
    from the support of a cause we believe to be just.” - Abraham Lincoln

  • I don't need a quote to support my opinion and pat myself on the back.

    I respect Lincoln's care for the freedom of African Americans, but that does not give him amnesty for his actions against the checks and balances of the Republic, or the incomes and livelihoods of countless Americans including their sons, husbands, and fathers who paid a much steeper price than your "Hero". Lincoln's last moment were spent (in-comparison) peacefully on a bed. While the Americans drafted under his orders died in the blood soaked fields scared and in agony. I thought great "Heros" fought along side their men; not cowering in a heavily defended offices miles away. I guess Lincoln was to heroic for that.

    Of course war is just population control so who cares about the little guy that needed to dies off for the betterment of humanity. He's not important at all. As long as our great and powerful "hero" survives we're better off. Pure BOLLOCKS! I can't understand why you would believe that.

  • Lincoln died in that bed with a bullet lodged in his brain and two other bullet wounds.

    It is easy to look at the soldiers who died on the field as the only ones who sacrificed anything during the war, but it is extremely short-sighted. Lincoln details in his journals the mental and emotional anguish he went through while making the decision to fight for his belief. Every leader goes through this. No great leader wants to sacrifice human lives, but they understand the need to sacrifice for the good of the whole.

    Our founding fathers did the same in the fight for our countries liberty. All great accomplishments require sacrifice. Those men that died for Lincoln did so under the belief that they were dying for a cause greater than themselves.

  • "Lincoln details in his journals the mental and emotional anguish he went through while making the decision to fight for his belief."

    Oh the sacrifice of being able to write in your journal every night. Man I don't envy that at all. Poor poor "hero". It was so hard to send all those men to die for what I believe. Who gives a rats ass about theirs.

    If he had any dignity we would have been on the field really fighting for his beliefs. Pres. Washington was at least in sight of the battles! He froze with his Patriots at the valley forge! He crossed the Delaware with them. Can't say the same about Lincoln and his diary.

  • Below is a letter that Lincoln didn't have to write, but did anyway. He felt every death that occurred in pursuit of his dream. He did this all while keeping his detractors at bay in pursuit of freedom for all. What good would it have done the country if he would have died on the field? Also, Washington was a general when he led (a terrible one), not the president.

    Executive Mansion,
    Washington, Nov. 21, 1864.

    Dear Madam,

    I have been shown in the files of the War Department a statement of the Adjutant General of Massachusetts that you are the mother of five sons who have died gloriously on the field of battle. I feel how weak and fruitless must be any word of mine which should attempt to beguile you from the grief of a loss so overwhelming. But I cannot refrain from tendering you the consolation that may be found in the thanks of the Republic they died to save. I pray that our Heavenly Father may assuage the anguish of your bereavement, and leave you only the cherished memory of the loved and lost, and the solemn pride that must be yours to have laid so costly a sacrifice upon the altar of freedom.

    Yours, very sincerely and respectfully,
    A. Lincoln

  • I said Pres. Washington because that's what he became. We didn't have a president then I'm not moronic. Still even Kings in England fighting for worthless causes showed more courage than that Illinois attorney.

    We all know that quote featured in Saving Private Ryan. It's amazingly crafted wordsmanship to the likes I'll never attain. Still just because he wrote something beautiful doesn't excuse his choice to sacrifice the lives of OTHER PEOPLE for HIS cause. Sure he didn't have to write that letter, but he also didn't have to send her five sons to die!

    At that point in the War the draft was in full effect so no matter what their beliefs they were forced into service to die for HIS cause! If he really was a man of the people there wouldn't be a need for the draft!

    Sorry, but this convo is over for me. This is a stalemate.

  • It may not seem it because of the words 'compulsive service,' but one need not die serving in a war for their country. If you go to war for another man's ideals, shame on you. If you don't have the balls to stand up for what you believe, even if that be the idea that men should not be compelled to fight for other men's dreams or their own dreams, if they don't want to die for them, then dieing in battle is the least of your problems. Maybe we should stop being pawns of those who take the role of deciding our fate.

  • Kage - Speaking about the draft is difficult at the best of times, and I certainly don't condone forcing people to fight for a cause not their own, but I don't believe that everyone fighting for Lincoln disagreed with his view on slavery.

    Sethimus - Again, forcing men to fight, despite their belief, is wrong in any light, but it still doesn't erase those that sacrificed themselves in pursuit of freedom for all.

  • Good point, Seth. I remember my best friend, basically my brother, calling me a coward when I told him that I would rather burn a draft card than go fight in Iraq back in 2004. That comment still hurts me to this day, because I believe the exact opposite is true. Resistance to tyranny is bravery, not cowardice - as I'm sure Garchow would agree.

  • My point is that either:

    They wanted to fight, so it was a sacrifice and they are heroes and should not be pitied or their commanders badgered for their deaths. Those men chose to fight for what they believed in.. and died for it. A noble death.

    Or, they didn't believe in what they were fighting for, were forced into it by the powers that be, but lacked the backbone to say no. Sure, their commander sent them to their deaths, but they didn't fight for freedom, they fought for acceptance or because of fear. A noble death? I think not. Better to have died refusing to fight than to die fighting for something you don't want to fight for.

  • "I don't believe that everyone fighting for Lincoln disagreed with his view on slavery."

    I don't believe that either. The abolitionists were strong in numbers and they should have fought on their own accord, but they didn't have enough numbers to fight the fight without forcing others into the conflict. That is wrong and misguided to think that is "heroic". It's the same thing as asking people to be charitable at gun point.

  • "That comment still hurts me to this day, because I believe the exact opposite is true. Resistance to tyranny is bravery, not cowardice - as I'm sure Garchow would agree."

    @Kyle - I certainly do.

  • Is slavery not the ultimate tyranny, Kage?

  • Slavery is a transparent form of tyranny. One is labeled master, one is labeled slave. A slave knows he is a slave and can muster his slave comrades to a revolt. We live under just as tyrannical a group today, but they keep us pacified with glitter and material crap and in our place through financial and commodity control. They keep up the appearance that we are free by talking of freedom and creating controlled conflicts over freedom and rights. The unknowing slave is blind to his captivity and spends his life unknowingly serving his master. You tell me which is the more heinous crime?

  • Indeed it is, but it is not our job to fight tyranny for others. The slave population outnumber the slave owners correct? If they had the desire they could have gained their freedom the this country did.

    but Kage we had help from the french. The slave could of gained help from the abolitionists. African Americans did this in the 60s!

  • Indeed it is, but it is not our job to fight tyranny for others. The slave population outnumber the slave owners correct? If they had the desire they could have gained their freedom the this country did.

    but Kage we had help from the french. The slave could of gained help from the abolitionists. African Americans did this in the 60s!

  • Seth- I can say with certainty that the slavery in which you were whipped into submission is far worse.

    Kage - What would have happened if the slave labor force had revolted? We have this idea that just the people on the plantations were those that believed in slavery, but an entire region of the country did. Do you really believe that the revolt wouldn't have been put down by those with the weaponry to do so?

  • Well put Sprouty!!!!

  • How well did the Loyalist stand up to the Patriots?

  • The loyalists were not on the same level as the slaves we speak of Kage...and they were well equipped to defend themselves.

  • Just to set the record straight, we are all slaves of something. The term slave need not be bad in all aspects. I have a family and am therefore a slave to their needs and wants. Is that bad? Only if I don't want to take care of them. Some are slaves to their own desires. If it causes them or others harm, maybe that's not so good. Otherwise, what's the problem? These are examples of self-assigned conscription.

    Forced conscription is more problematic. I don't want to serve you, but you will kill/deport/mind-wipe my family if I don't. I'm trapped here on this island and need food, shelter, water, and clothing. You have it all, so I serve you, but don't like it. I will break free first chance I get.

    Secret conscription has you before you are born. It's already sold your parents' parents ideas and lies. Your grandfather died defending these ideals. You believe them wholeheartedly because they are fact, the way things are, the way things have always been, the way things will be, the only way things can be. The party controlling this is laughing as you struggle to break free from forced conscription they themselves are backing and struggle with your self-inflicted conscription while unknowingly and ultimately, you are their slave. They make sure you have no time to think about your secret conscription by keeping you busy with education, addiction, conflict, ideals, hatred, and lies. They fill the media with carefully crafted lies to keep you believing the dream. They elevate one of your fellow slaves every so often, just to keep you believing that if you keep on track, the stars can be yours. They decimate one of those elevated every so often to demonstrate the perils of abused freedom. They vilify those who disagree, and praise those who conform. They do things to make you made at them, just so you don't think they have things under control. They feign imperfection to make themselves appear vulnerable, pitiable, cause-worthy, and loveable. They make you believe the dream is all you have to live for, like it is a self-inflicted conscription, worth dieing for.

  • Illuminati?

  • Founding fathers? Framers? British royalty?

  • I believe you are ascribing far too much intelligence and power to our founding fathers Sethimus. No worries though, a vast majority of the nation is with you on that count.

    I am far more inclined to think that we, as Americans, are eager to prove ourselves among the older civilizations of the world. In doing so, we create elaborate stories and structures around the major organizations that have existed in our country since the beginning. In doing so, we further add to our countries incessant power trip.

  • I didn't say it was the founding fathers on their own. Might not have been anyone in specific, just a monster that grew out of need to keep the beast alive. For all I know, those pushing, promoting, and conniving for the good of the dream may be just as duped by the system.

  • Sounds a bit like sketchy logic to me.

  • I don't really see how that is any more sketchy than anything else that's been said here, including the facts about both presidents, which none of us can personally verify. We take historian's word as accurate, but we know that history is slanted because historians have told us so.

  • We've essentially been arguing about the nature of the hero. Slightly different than the assumption that a society of super powerful people enslaving the planet.

  • It does all relate. The hero is dubbed hero by the powers that control, simply for the purpose of controlling and fomenting allegiance from those who would be a heroes themselves, maybe. The question is, do those who die a hero's death know and believe that for which they die? Really, or just what they're fed by controlled historians and media. We cannot ask them... they're dead.

  • The idea that heroes are merely called such as a social device for control seems to be a common theme amongst the detractors here. I can't tell you how disappointing that is.

    Our civilization was built upon ideals. Some have worked, some have not, some are still being considered. Those that have worked are founded upon the idea that humanity can achieve something more than itself. That a single human being can transcend the cage we generally place around ourselves on a daily basis. This human being can can see past their own misery and into the structures of what make life what it is. They see this and make the choice: do I change this for the better? Or do I continue to live this dull existence?

    It seems to me that you two have been disappointed one too many times. You have given up on the idea of heroes, of heroic action, on humanity as a whole. In few, but exacting words...that sucks.

  • You are wrong my friend. I have a great deal of faith in mankind. We are, however, our own worst enemies. We fight for things that mean nothing, then glorify those who do the most killing as heroes or champions and leaders. We praise those who save their brothers during combat as heroic. What the hell were they doing there in the first place? What gives any man the right to force his will or gun on another? Then call ourself a hero, or let another call us? That sucks.

  • It seems a bit counter-intuitive to speak in such broad generalities in this instance Seth. Not only is the definition of a hero a very personal one, but the moniker can only ever be handed out by a single entity. WE chose who are heroes are, not some governing body.

  • I have no opinion regarding the heroics or lack thereof in either of these men, but I do find it hard to believe all the "coincidences" that occurred. It sounds like cleverly fabricated myth to me.

  • As with any conspiracy theory, yes.

  • The government, media and historians never call anyone a hero or make statues of national heroes? Personal heroes, yes, I am in total agreement with you. They are very much to be esteemed. Ordinary people resolving themselves to extraordinary or sacrificial acts of courage to assist those who cannot assist themselves. The hero does it not for the duty or the pay or the glory or the honor or the gold or the girl. The hero cannot image life otherwise.

  • That is exactly my point Sethimus. Why would we consider anything other than our personal opinion when it comes to a hero?

Comment on the Smart Living Network

The Noble Congressmen

Abraham Lincoln was elected to the United States House of Representatives in 1846. 100 years later, John F. Kennedy ran for a vacant seat in the same house and won. A century seems small when written in caption, does it not?

Commander and Chief

After battling for the ballot, both men where elected president in the same instance of divided time; Lincoln in 1860, Kennedy in 1960. Both pressed the American people on an issue that divided the country, despite the time...civil rights.

A Movement Through The Ages

Despite being at odds with a large portion of their respective United States, both men believed strongly in the rights of all people, despite creed or color. They fought valiantly to use the power vested in them for the good of all...and were met with rather stiff resistance.

A Day Unlike Any Other

Both of these great men were shot while in the midst of the people they so fearlessly represented throughout their lifetimes. Lincoln was shot in the head on a Friday afternoon while viewing "Our American Cousin" at Ford's Theatre. Kennedy was also shot on a Friday afternoon, whilst seated next to his wife in a motorcade, proudly waving to the American people. Champions of the people, gunned down in cold blood.

Southern Hospitality

Both great men were gunned down by men of "southern" origin. Both were replaced by men of the same, with Johnson as their name.

Johnson and Johnson

Andrew Johnson, who would become the president after Lincoln was assassinated, was born in 1808. Lyndon Johnson, who would become president after the Kennedy assassination, was born in 1908. Another circumstantial time signature? Fate? Grand design?

Scapegoat or Saboteur?

Again, the century mark rears its ugly head in this tale of heartbreak and woe. John Wilkes Booth, Lincoln's assassin, was born in 1839. Lee Harvey Oswald, the man who supposedly killed Kennedy, was born in 1939.

Both were killed before their stories could be heard through lawful trial.

Twisted Coincidence?

John Wilkes Booth shot Lincoln in Ford's Theatre and escaped, only to be found hiding in a warehouse. Lee Harvey Oswald supposedly shot JFK from an upper floor of a warehouse and was found hiding in a theatre.

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